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Post by xBarryxAllenx on Sept 5, 2012 6:43:58 GMT -5
Over the weekend there was quite a bit of coverage about the efforts to deal with a troll who had been sending abusive and even threatening messages to female comics creators and fans for over two years. I truly wish that this was the only person acting in such a manner...but unfortunately this just isn't the case. In the aftemath of this coverage I read blog entries and Tweets from people I respect who have dealt with this kind of behavior for a very long time. I have a lot more to say on this subject, and thought I'd include a link to my Tumblr for your consideration (see below): barryallenvsm.tumblr.com/post/30914249801/misogyny-in-comics-fans-no-place-for-thisIt saddens me...and disgusts me as well that this type of behavior exists. On this forum, if you love comics you are most welcome here, and you can count on being treated with respect. That is a promise.
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dillonmania
Breaking the Sound Barrier
Yes, I am *that* Top fan
Posts: 368
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Post by dillonmania on Sept 5, 2012 18:34:23 GMT -5
Thank you, it's greatly appreciated Years ago, I left the general forum at CBR when a regular/popular poster told me during a discussion that all women want to be raped by rich doctors. He was known to have mental health issues, so I can cut him a bit of slack, but not one person said "Hey man, that's not okay". So I never went back. A couple of years ago there was a nasty SOB at Comicbloc who was pretty openly misogynist, and during one thread he was claiming that nearly all reports of sexual assault are false. I got mad and told him that a lot of women don't report their assaults at all, and I didn't either, and he replied that it was my own fault I didn't report it, because the police would do something about it. You know why people don't report it? Because jackasses say things like "nearly all reports of sexual assault are false!" The mods shut down the thread but never punished him. Over at Bleeding Cool, some people are downplaying this guy and saying what he's done is not a big deal...which I guess I should expect from them. I always regret reading the forums there.
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Post by xBarryxAllenx on Sept 5, 2012 22:28:42 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing your story here. I am so sorry you have gone through such terrible things in your life, and I know it takes tremendous courage to tell what has happened to you. I do get why so many women would not feel like they could report what happened to them. Frankly, you don't owe anything to anyone other than yourself, and I hope you are doing well now.
It deeply saddens and frankly enrages me that the most vile and disgusting behavior is allowed to go basically unchecked far too often. Let's be clear - "free speech" as guaranteed by the United States constitution (often cited in these arguments) does NOT mean you can say whatever you want without consequence. It just means you can say that you don't like the government without fear of being thrown into jail for your dissent. It does NOT mean that you can say whatever hateful, disgusting, vile thing you want to say and then act as if no one has a right to object. It does NOT mean you can stalk and verbally attack someone without fear of being shut down. And, most of all, it does NOT mean you can threaten someone online without fear of legal recourse.
We may not be able to fully stamp out this type of behavior. There are so many ways a troll can keep going, even when a hundred e-mail addresses and handles are shut down. But, it is past time that we stand up, that we at least say "That's Not Right!" when we see this kind of behavior. Hopefully, we'll see more people with the courage to stand up - and if so, then we may actually have a chance to stop a lot of this terrible behavior.
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Post by eightball19 on Sept 6, 2012 5:15:28 GMT -5
One thing I can't stand is any kind of hate speech, which is one of the main reasons I don't read comment sections on some websites because there's always a troll waiting to say something negative, I was always taught that if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all
I haven't heard anything about this woman hating troll untill now, but I would say that we all have to appreciate women because without them we wouldn't exist
I like this site and one of the reasons is there's no hate speech anywhere, I've been a member for just over a year now and haven't had a problem with anybody
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Post by xBarryxAllenx on Sept 6, 2012 5:51:13 GMT -5
I'm glad you haven't had any problems here - it is one of the many things that makes it so much fun to be associated with this site. It really speaks well of everyone here - thanks to all!
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Savitar
Running at 300 mph
Posts: 171
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Post by Savitar on Sept 6, 2012 22:52:41 GMT -5
The medium itself is partly to blame. For years, women in comics have been depicted as sexual fantasy objects to one degree or another. So any intrusion into this field, either by a female creator or fan, is seen as breaking into a boys only club.
I realize that is no excuse nor should it be. This type of behaviour is deplorable. But to truly try and reign in this disgusting attitude, changes need to be made from not only the fans, but also the publishers as well. We need more female creators, more female characters that can serve as good role models and not just eye candy.
Alan Moore shot Barbara Gordon, but Gail Simone turned her into a true hero. How can anyone who calls themselves a comic fan hate that?
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dillonmania
Breaking the Sound Barrier
Yes, I am *that* Top fan
Posts: 368
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Post by dillonmania on Sept 8, 2012 23:44:55 GMT -5
A lot of it is nerd culture in general, I think -- there is a LOT of misogyny (and homophobia and racism) in a lot of nerds. I have no idea if it stems from frustration over dating and sex or what, but some pretty vile stuff comes from some surprising sources. This is not to suggest that most male nerds are misogynist, because there's also a strong strain of feminism in plenty of them as well, but some of these guys are awful.
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Post by jonqcitizen on Sept 10, 2012 6:15:33 GMT -5
Such actions and comments should never be accepted or condoned. Well said by all here....
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Post by speedster on Sept 11, 2012 23:50:38 GMT -5
It is amazing stuff like this still flies. I suppose the anonymous and near-limitless nature of the internet makes it possible. It is sad that someone would go to such effort to continuously troll someone like that for years. I hope said person gets the help the likely need. But to truly try and reign in this disgusting attitude, changes need to be made from not only the fans, but also the publishers as well. We need more female creators, more female characters that can serve as good role models and not just eye candy. That is probably true, but part of the problem is to ask "where are these female creators," "do these female creators even want to work for the bigger publishers", and, from a business standpoint, "will their work sell?" It is incredibly hard to get into the comics business already. And it is a business that is suffering from a slow death. Publishers are not going to hire someone willy-nilly just to fill a gender quota.
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Post by xBarryxAllenx on Sept 12, 2012 6:25:40 GMT -5
That is probably true, but part of the problem is to ask "where are these female creators," "do these female creators even want to work for the bigger publishers", and, from a business standpoint, "will their work sell?" It is incredibly hard to get into the comics business already. And it is a business that is suffering from a slow death. Publishers are not going to hire someone willy-nilly just to fill a gender quota. This is the one point where I would respectfully disagree with speedster. There are great female creators out there who are having a great deal of difficulty getting a chance because of their gender. Gail Simone is only one example of great talents who frankly had a very hard time breaking into the industry...but given the chance, proved that talent can win out, and can even be highly successful from both a critical and business standpoint. When a group has been historically left out for reasons other than talent and ability, it's hard to right that ship. This is true regardless of whether you are looking at gender or race or any other way people have been divided against each other over the years. But, it doesn't mean you have to hire less-than-talented people to make things right...it just means you stop overlooking the talent that is clearly there, and that you embrace the opportunity to get things right moving forward.
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Post by speedster on Sept 12, 2012 7:40:21 GMT -5
When a group has been historically left out for reasons other than talent and ability, it's hard to right that ship. I guess that is what I was trying to get at. I just think that saying "we need to get more female creators" is something easier said than done for numerous reasons.
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Post by xBarryxAllenx on Sept 12, 2012 7:46:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply and the clarification - hopefully there will be more opportunities for talented female comics creators to show what they can do when given the chance.
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dillonmania
Breaking the Sound Barrier
Yes, I am *that* Top fan
Posts: 368
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Post by dillonmania on Sept 12, 2012 23:28:56 GMT -5
I'm absolutely against quotas, but there are definitely some talented female creators out there who can do the job. That said, there are tons of talented male creators who can do it too...and obviously there are only so many jobs. I guess what I'd like to see is companies hiring the right person for the job -- but keeping in mind that having diversity is a good thing, and trying to make sure they aren't always hiring from the same pool.
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Post by speedster on Sept 21, 2012 22:20:08 GMT -5
I'm absolutely against quotas, but there are definitely some talented female creators out there who can do the job. That said, there are tons of talented male creators who can do it too...and obviously there are only so many jobs. I guess what I'd like to see is companies hiring the right person for the job -- but keeping in mind that having diversity is a good thing, and trying to make sure they aren't always hiring from the same pool. That is very true. I suppose a problem arises for all when it comes to hiring after a job industry is called out on their previous hiring practices/blunders.
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