Solicitation for Flash #11

[xBarryxAllenx]

Thanks to speedforce.org for posting this story on the solicitations for The Flash #11 and Earth 2 #3 - please add your thoughts here on the upcoming issues re: Heat Wave in Flash and Alan and Jay in Earth 2:

speedforce.org/2012/04/flash-11-solicitation-cover/

[dillonmania]

Now I'm waiting in nervous anticipation for Mick's redesigned look

Kind of not a fan of DC's new style of solicitations, it's awfully minimalist. And there's a spoiler in the Shade solicits for an upcoming plot point they haven't gotten to yet in the series, arrrgh!

[xBarryxAllenx]

I do wish they would just release an all-Rogues display to let us see the redesigns.

[dillonmania]

Yeah, that'd be nice. I guess the anticipation helps build up the books, though.

[speedster]

I'm loving the build up to whatever M&B have planned for the Rogues. I wonder if this big Rogue event will play out in issue 12. I guess its possible it could take place in the rumored annual. However, I also wonder if the rumored "issue 0" will focus on what happened between the rogues (since all the 0-issues supposedly take place before issue 1). All I know is that I'm excited and the M&B clearly have a plan.

As for the redesigned looks...meh. It's not any sort of deal breaker. Most have been good modernization improvements. Making them metas was also a smart move as I've always thought it made no sense that criminals who could create elaborate gadgets turned to crime instead of patenting the gadget and getting rich that way.

Edit: typo

[dillonmania]

Manapul has said that we'll see how the Rogues got their new powers in the annual (of course, you never know if things will be changed between now and then).

Anyway, regarding the gadgets...since they haven't changed their gadget backstory (as per Manapul, they still formerly used guns and tech), they're still guys who came up with all these devices and never patented them. It doesn't fix anything.

[speedster]

I never suggested it "fixed" anything. It is, however, more digestible now. True, they had a mention to the gadgets, but I take that as more of a throwaway reference to those resistant to change saying "See, we haven't forgotten everything!" After the flashback issue/annual/whatever it will be, I doubt we'll ever hear from the gadgets ever again.

Or, at least until the Wally West fans come into editorial power at DC.

[dillonmania]

I guess I question how many new readers are on the book and aren't aware of their gadget backstory, because obviously anyone who read the series prior to the reboot is well aware of their history. It changes nothing for us.

[speedster]

Who said anything about new readers? M&B threw a nod to the legacy of the characters tied to a quick joke ("I liked him better with the guns"). Nothing more. Who cares if it "changes nothing"? This is the new status quo and, if the Capt. Cold issues are any indication, meta Rogues are already a vast improvement.

[dillonmania]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one, as I don't see it as an improvement.

[xBarryxAllenx]

I think the key here is your frame of reference...when you came in to reading The Flash, how you felt about the Rogues in the day, and how the more recent changes impacted you. I'm not surprised to see a variety of points of view, as that can also be said about a lot of the changes the New 52 has brought in.

I'm old enough to have lived through a lot of changes. It will sound ridiculous to just about all of you today, but I was angry (really, really ANGRY) when they had Dick, Wally, Garth, Donna and Roy grow up and get out of high school. It changed the status quo for me as a kid and I didn't care for it one bit. Yes, I know that this later led to Dick becoming Nightwing and being a part of the version of the Titans so many fans well-remember now (including me), but at the time I didn't care for it one bit.

Of course a LOT of changes came later, including CoIE and now Flashpoint and the New 52 (you know, "Flashpoint and the New 52" sounds like a GREAT name for a band, whaddaya think?). And, even though some great things came out of each change, there were still some really great things that were thrown by the wayside. That's what makes it tough.

All of this is to say that I'm not sure how I feel about the Rogues going "meta" yet, either...but I do understand both points of view here. I've come to realize how many Rogues fans there are, and it has opened my eyes to how passionate Rogues fans are...every bit as passionate as the fans of Wally. I'm enjoying the stories overall so far, and am very impressed with the writing chops of Manapul and Buccellato as well as with their art. Hopefully, the stories will continue to live up to their rather high standards and this debate won't be the "make or break" issue for Rogues fans as far as following The Flash.

[speedster]

May 1, 2012 22:45:41 GMT -5 xBarryxAllenx said:

you know, "Flashpoint and the New 52" sounds like a GREAT name for a band, whaddaya think?

I think that's something we can all agree on.

Hopefully, the stories will continue to live up to their rather high standards and this debate won't be the "make or break" issue for Rogues fans as far as following The Flash.

Well said. Gadgets or meta abilities, it really makes no difference. The characters' gimmicks are still there. In the end, it is really about the writing and how everything is executed. If done well, it can breath new life into the characters. If done poorly, it'll make them stagnate.

[dillonmania]

My concern is that it's mucking with success. There's no doubt that Johns breathed a lot of life into the Rogues, and frankly I think he made them more popular than they've ever been. A big part of that was the "regular blue-collar dudes" vibe, and meta powers really negate that (yes, there were some powered Rogues under Johns, but none of them are popular).

Could meta Rogues turn out to be great? Sure, it's entirely possible I'm wrong and this will be amazing. But so far I'm not seeing it, and on a personal level I'm hugely turned off by how different Cold is -- he looks different, acts different, and has different powers. He might as well be a completely new character, and that doesn't sit well with me. Maybe the other Rogues will be closer to their old selves, and I hope so (I did like that Lisa showed some sass, which she didn't under Johns and that's one of my biggest complaints about his run). But so far the creative team has come up with an entirely different Cold and quite possibly replaced the Top (my favourite DC character) with a new guy. As far as I'm concerned, they're batting pretty low.